The first episode on The Future of Digital Commerce features Lions not Sheep founder, Sean Whalen.
In this episode, Ryan and Sean discuss:
Ryan Alford [00:00:09] Hey, guys, what's up? This is Ryan Alford. Welcome to the latest edition of the Radcast. We're here in the middle of our eCommerce series and excited to have our guests today again. Sean, I was just talking about a lot of avenues, but want to talk about Sean Whalen and his growth with lions not sheep. Sean, thanks for coming on, man.
Sean Whalen [00:00:33] Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
Ryan Alford [00:00:35] Cool. Well, I know we could go down a lot of rabbit trails, a lot of things, but maybe let's just start there. I don't want to cap us too much, but as we build towards where you've taken Lions Not Sheep and all the e-commerce growth there. I know you've got a huge following, but it may not be the following of our podcast that have heard of you, that know about you. Let's just start there like the recap of Sean and history and what got us there.
Sean Whalen [00:01:13] Loaded question Brother but I'll keep it super simple. I mean I was successful at a young age. I grew up in a single-parent home, built a couple of companies, and made a lot of money in my 20s. And I talk about in my book how I felt like I was juggling bowling balls. Success looks like this and it needs to be this. And so I'm working 20 hour days, building, growing, and the whole thing. And you know what? I was at work and needed to be home and I was home and needed to be at work. – what a lot of men are going through, not just today, years ago. But where we're at is a culture in society; this is what success looks like. If you're on Instagram, it's like you've got to be here, you've got to be balling. And if you're not working 29 hours a day like you are messed up. I was that guy and I said she quit juggling all the bowling balls and I don't know what a mid-life crisis is, but I left my marriage. I left my business, I stuck my head up my ass for over a year trying to figure out not how to make money, how to build a business. Like why was I even here? What's the purpose of all this? Like, why am I doing any of this? I've got the cars and a Rolex, but what am I even doing with any of this? And so I went on an interesting journey. I got depressed, suicidal, and found myself in a dark place, and ended up hiring a coach, trying to figure out how do I get out of this mindset? I shift things around. And one of the things that he challenged me to do was to start sharing my thoughts and what was going on on social media at the time. I was like, believe it or not, my ex-wife had Facebook. And a year before I did, I was like, that's the stupidest thing ever. Why would I do that? I didn't believe in it. Which is ironic now, having almost all my videos and stuff on there.
Ryan Alford [00:02:58] And the 37 stories I've watched of yours just today.
Sean Whalen [00:03:02] I mean it's phenomenal. We will talk about that from a marketing perspective in a minute. I went through a nasty divorce and to make a long story short, I ended up sharing one night some dark shit, some stuff that I was ashamed of and had been hiding, and just told the truth for the lack of a better word. They just told the truth for once. I was angry. I didn't have all the answers. And that post ended up going viral. Millions and millions and millions of people. I went from having two hundred friends on Facebook to almost 40k followers in a matter of ten days and people were hitting me up on it. "Dude, teach me more". "What classes do you have?" And I'm like, pump the fucking brakes man. I'm just telling you my shit. I'm not Dr. Phil, call somebody else. These were some of the messages I started to get from my followers. And in that process, I left the company, I left everything and I still dabbled in real estate. But one day the phrase Lions not sheep came into my mind. I was looking at this catalog and there was another company or something similar, and it just popped into my head and it just resonated and it just wouldn't go away for days. It's just lions not sheep. And I kept thinking to myself, like looking at everything in life, like I have a choice. To follow and to do what everybody else is doing and to buy this because he bought this or build this because he built this or this is what this needs to be. And it was like not you. Like what do I want to do? Like who do I want to be? Like, what life do I want to build? When you tear everything down and essentially burn it to the ground, you're pretty much starting from scratch. I knew what my skill sets were. I knew what I was good at. But, I just decided to do the things that I was passionate about, what do I want to do? And when lions not sheep came to me, I called my buddy who owned a clothing company one day, and I said, "Hey, man, can you make me a t-shirt" and he said sure. So I went online and went to fonts.com and found this cool font and did this, then I ask can you do this? And he got it to his designer. And I spent 40 bucks to make a t-shirt with our original lions not sheep, black and white t-shirt. And I was wearing it one day and I had a picture and I posted it on Facebook and all these comments are coming in. "It was badass". Where'd you get that? Can I get that shirt? And I called my buddy. I was like, I don't know how to sell t-shirts. Like he's like, I'll set up shop by store and whatever. And so that kind of started the whole for me it was just my mantra. It just became my way of thinking, my way of being. It was very personal to me. And I saw a lot of people gravitate towards a lot of people who connect with it. And we started selling the t-shirts and then I formed the company that makes for multiple companies inside of that. And it became what is now a huge movement where millions of people engage with the content and know about it. And just recently, we've had some people that have, a guy named Ian Smith, who was in New Jersey, who the governor was trying to shut his gym down. And I woke up one morning a month ago, a month and a half ago, and I had been tagged over 100 times in this post, and like, what the fuck? And I, I open up Instagram and there's this guy who's, like, super defiant, like screw the governor or whatever, whatever, and he's got like a sheep hat on. I'm not connected to him. He's not connected to me. It was just like, oh, dope. So I followed him and said, hey, man, I love the hat, whatever, whatever he's like, oh dude, I've been following you, like, just started, like, knew the brand. He ended up just seeing one of our hats and bought the hat and his post went viral and it was really interesting. For the next couple of days he was on CNN, Fox, Tucker Carlson, all these big shows and he was wearing the lions not sheep gear our free man t-shirt. And it was just cool to see that he didn't know me per se, but he vibed with the brands, recognized them, resonated with them, and decided to buy a shirt and a hat. And it just kind of brought me full circle like him. And like this was me, my kind of rebirth coming back into the marketplace, kind of getting my balls back and building some business and now knowing that it resonates literally with millions of people around the world. It's pretty frickin' amazing. So that's about a 20-year story in three minutes.
Ryan Alford [00:07:40] Couple of things to unpack there. I mean, how enlightening was it? I can only imagine you said, you feel like you live not necessarily a lie, but you never felt comfortable being transparent. It may be vulnerable if I can use that word here. How enlightening was that moment when holy shit I can be myself and I'm garnering the attention? Not that maybe you were seeking before when you were copying everyone else, but just the irony in that had to be just amazing.
Sean Whalen [00:08:15] It was. And what's interesting is, we're all and this is kind of some of the stuff that I teach like we're all programmed to lie, OK? I don't care who's watching this. Black, white, gay, straight, rich, poor, all of us, we're programmed the same way to lie and don't believe me? And we go back to when you were a kid. Sit down, quiet down. Slow down your little child. You go to church. This is right. This is wrong. Don't say this. Don't do that. And when you stop and think about it like we've been indoctrinated since we were children to do as we're told to speak words that will be pleasing to everyone, don't wrestle anybody's feathers. And that's what we do from when we were little children, elementary school, middle school, high school. You've got to raise your hand and go to the bathroom. I mean, nowadays, you can't say, should I say anything? And I'm called a neo-Nazi online. And this is not the other piss everybody off. But when you think about it like we've been programmed since we were little children, to not speak our truth, to not share what's inside, we're told, tell the truth, tell the truth, tell the truth. But the ramifications of telling the truth are dark. They're bad. Slap on the hand put them in the principal's office. Parents are mad at you. So we just lie. And as you get older, you become a man. It's like we don't talk about emotions. We don't talk about where we're at. We just man the fuck up, put on your big boys' pants and get after it. And the truth of the matter is that more men killed themselves in 2018 than during the Great Depression. Why? It's not because there's a lack of money or lack of opportunity or lack of chicks or ass running around. It's because dudes are trapped in this box like I was ten years ago. My dude, I am not happy with where I'm at, but I don't know how to talk about it. My boys said, "Hey man, how are you doing?" I'm told them, "I'm good right here". Someone we knew killed himself. We didn't even know he was sad. He looks like he's got an ideal life. I mean, and so when I talk to people about this and I coach on this, it's like no one thinks that they're lying. But the truth is, if you're not speaking the truth, then what is it? And if you're not sharing what's inside of you, how you feel, what's going on, it's not an issue of political correctness or I don't want to piss anybody off. It's like, what are you doing? Are you speaking your truth, yes or no? Well, I can't because my mom follows me on Instagram or my church people are over here in the sun. And so we live a vast majority of our culture and our society is just lying. And so the challenge from my coach was to share what you're thinking and feeling. And when I shared that post, it was wrong. Scariest shit, because I talked about anger. I talk about frustration. I talked about not knowing what the hell was going on. But it is interesting and this is a huge lesson for people. Understand. I notice two things that happen. Millions of people resonated with my message or no one. There are people who say, "I'll teach you how to go viral". Nobody has a recipe to go viral. Anybody who tries to sell your course courses on how to make viral videos, tell them to get away because it doesn't exist right now. I didn't wake up to be a social influencer one day. I just shared my story, I shared darkness. It wasn't the filtered, rosy, look at my wind, look at my accolades, look at my cool crap, I was like, dude, I was depressed. I almost blew my brains out. I made a lot of mistakes. And I realize that millions of people resonated with that because we're all experiencing that in one way, shape or form. Sex, money, politics, religion, divorce, depression, bankruptcy, suicide. Those are topics we don't talk about. They're not politically correct and socially acceptable. Yet everyone on this planet is somehow intertwined with sex, money, politics, religion, divorce, depression, all of these things. So what do we talk about all day long? So I realized the first thing was how many people resonated with my darkness. And I coined the phrase your message, your message bought the domain. And that's probably the title of one of my books coming down the pipe here. But my mess became my message. And the second thing that I saw after I shared this was that I felt better. It was almost like, Okay. And so when I talk to entrepreneurs or business owners and people and say, "Dude, you're a better father, when you feel better". , you're a better mother when you feel better, you're better at everything when you feel better, L sying doesn't feel good. Lying is scary. Do they know? Do they know? Do they know where you tell the truth and you got nothing to worry about? So if this is the recipe for me connecting with people and me feeling better, then I'm just going to keep doing it. And at the time, five years ago, and not that I was the only guy sharing shit on social media, but very few people are talking about real raw things and it's just airy-fairy political things, research of this. And so I just went on a mission like I'm going to share me. And since then, I've had almost a billion views of my videos, millions of followers. Hundreds of millions of engagements on my posts from Instagram to Facebook. Some of my videos have had as many as 170 million views.That's what I found to be my little kind of recipe. And I felt better. The marketplace resonated with it and I just kept running it.
Ryan Alford [00:13:35] I want to get into some nuts and bolts in the back half-year on e-commerce. But I do have one follow-up because I feel like no matter how lost you may have felt, kind of being what you categorize a man that everybody wanted you to be and not the real maybe you. Something has shaped Sean Whalen at some point in life, well, before you got lost or you got found or anything like that, I feel there have to be these opinions and these beliefs. They formed all of this something shaped that either early, whenever I would think.
Sean Whalen [00:14:17] I don't know, nobody's ever asked that. Thinking back in life like my parents split up when I was an early teenager, I was a quiet kid. I was reserved. I was a chubby little kid. I was a pretty good baseball player. But like, I wasn't popular. I wasn't the class valedictorian. I was quiet, really reserved. I went on a two-year Mormon mission that was where I started to find my voice. I mean, you're out basically selling God and you're going door to door pitching God to people. And it was something I was passionate about. It was something that I didn't grow up in the Mormon Church. I grew up Catholic. And so it was kind of a recent convert to the church. And I just started realizing that people love to connect, people love to talk. And I was good at it. I was good at just talking to people. And I know that sounds weird like there is an art form to communication. There's an art form of being able to not just to talk so, hey, how's your water? Why do you like that water? OK, great water bike. It's irritating listening to people and hearing them and knowing what's driving them and something that I've always been fascinated about and with is is what's behind it? I like to critically think and for me, being able to be in a place where I can ask deeper questions is fun for me. And I found on my mission as I was talking about God, I mean, God, such a crazy topic for so many people because you have people that are way over here and the people are way over here and people have no clue. And so it forced me to be number 1, find my foundation like what I believed and how I felt about life and who I was and purpose and the entire thing I found. I like people who just love to connect. And so it's just become almost a skill set. An art form that I've just gotten better and better at is communicating with human beings. But it doesn't come from my youth as I was a quiet kid, man.
Ryan Alford [00:16:25] Well, it's because I've shared some of your stuff with people and they go, “oh, man, he's pretty hardcore on this”. And, they care. He's a great communicator. And I said, I thought, you're a great communicator, period.
Sean Whalen [00:16:39] I mean, that's what I'm talking about. I mean, when you care about people, we're just so busy trying to, believe me, hear me. This is me. And it sounds funny, but if it can't be explained on a whiteboard or with crayons, it's too complicated. We should not have a tax policy in America that can't be explained on a whiteboard. We should not have foreign policies and take thirty thousand page freaking manuals to explain. No one's interested in that. And so I think we can tie this into the marketing in the business. And the whole thing is a copy is really important. Like, what are you telling me? Everybody knows they're being sold something. So we've already got that out of the way. And what are you trying to tell me? What are you trying to communicate with me? Yay or nay. Like, if the answer is simple, no, just say no right now. But I love being able to look at complex things and I break it down in my brain to just like coloring book kind of conversations like, yeah, this is what this is. And it's just more to me it's more fun that way. I have more connection to stuff that way.
Ryan Alford [00:17:50] And so let's talk about lionsnotsheep.com. I mean, we work in a digital agency here and we work with a lot of brands and they come to us and have great products, but they have no story. And I will take a company that has a purpose and a story all day because that's it's organic. Yet again it just becomes about blocking and tackling. It's really hard to figure out the hail Mary, the message. The blocking and tackling you can do, What has been some of those mechanics of, because I've heard you talk about it, you're like, you started the company, you do your selling t-shirts, you had a message, you had a plan, but something poured gas on the fire for the tactics and some of the ways with which you have seen growth. Can you talk about some of that?
Sean Whalen 2 [00:18:42] First of all, there are two philosophies in my opinion, like anybody who's a really good ad or copy guy or whatever. You can take any product and figure out a way to sell it. And there's a lot of people that do that. They take a product from China. They're really good. They figured out the game, the algorithms, they can do that. And then some people have passion behind something, they live it, they breathe that, they sleep it, it's big to them because their kid has cancer and they want this product out there and they want this thing or that thing. And there's a story and a connection behind it. And either one of those is phenomenal. But I think the people that struggle the most are the ones that feel like they have that passion and they feel like everybody is supposed to have that passion. This shirt is so badass and saying if everybody's going to buy the saying and this entire thing, I've found for me: Lions Not Sheep. It was for me when I wrote my book, which sold over half a million copies completely organically. I mean, I didn't even put page numbers in there. We forgot it was so basic and just put it out there in the marketplace. I wrote a book that I wanted to read like that I would want to read. And I think a lot of people need to realize, what do you want to wear? It's easy to come up with slick marketing and slick products and whatever, but if there's no marketplace for it, it doesn't matter how great many pages there are, they said the other. So you're trying to tie in that story, like, why is this relevant to you? Why do you believe in this? And then I've, for the last couple of years, been talking about Lions Not Sheep but it's become me. And people have watched my journey as a father, as a business owner, as a man, as a divorced guy, as a dating guy. Like all of these things have been transparent. And I think people vibe with that. They resonate with it. And so for me, Lions not sheep, everybody's been telling me do during the perfect storm now with the whole political climate because it's like we're all you're one or the other, right? You're picking, you are either the lion or the sheep, which is great.
Ryan Alford [00:20:44] But yeah, there are 135 million people on your side,
Sean Whalen [00:20:49] Here's what's cool is everybody now wants to jump on that. And they want to look into that emotion. They want to plug into the political climate, whatever. And you don't have a track record. You don't have a tribe. You don't have any that I didn't set out to do that. And I think that's what makes Lions Not Sheep unique. And I think a lot of people need to wrap their heads around this. And it's difficult to do is having the consistency of delivering content and messaging for the long game, because now we're in a perfect storm. Now we're crushing because so much content has been put out there over the last couple of years. And it wasn't to sell t-shirts or sell hats or selling any of that. My mom retired last year and she was bored of this. I said, Mom, come help me make t-shirts. And so we had one heat transfer. She was in the office and we'd sell 20 t-shirts a month, just people stumbling around the website. And she'd run down and she'd get the shirts and she'd make them and she'd write a little note, pack them all out. And that was really what the apparel brand was until the beginning of this year. But being able to sit in a story and deliver that to people that they believe without trying to sell them anything is massive. And that's a huge tactic that I don't think very many people understand. I believe that the very best salespeople on planet Earth are never selling anything. You go to my Instagram or my Facebook you will never see me selling anything. Yet I'm able to make millions of dollars through coaching and consulting and other companies that I have, but I'm not selling anything. So how does that work? I'm living it, I'm breathing it. I'm exuding it. And if you're a Jeep guy, you want to start a brand around Jeep, but you're driving a Honda Accord, good luck. You better know the clicks and the algorithms, but it's like some of those dudes are like hardcore Jeep guys. They get it. They know what Jeep guys talk about. They know what Jeep guys want and they're able to exude that message. Right. And people instantly resonate with it. So I do believe that it's you're in a day and age where we're completely bombarded and flooded with products and things and ads and messages, and if you want the short game, you better freaking figure out how to become a really good marketer, a really good copywriter, and buy ads better than anybody else. But if you want to build a real brand like something that has legs that will be around for a long time to resonate with people, like why is it important to you? And you better be living it. If you're living it and talking about it. Everybody's like my personal page on this page that I got. I don't even know how many hundreds of thousands of followers are on my page. I've weighed less than my business page because I'm always living this, talking about it, breathing, and eating it. And you'd be surprised how many people could plug into that. And now that we're turning on ads and running ads and doing shit like that, where I have almost a billion views of my videos, I can now target some of those videos. So I've been playing the long game and consistently doing the content, consistently talking about it. And people just know, like some people will see the shirts. I get messages where they're like, dude, that's the best. The bearded guy. They don't know my name because they recognize my video or a post like I know that guy. That's his thing. And it's cool.
Ryan Alford [00:24:07] What's the vision? I mean, where are we going? I know you're knee-deep in a lot of things and it is open doors and that you're coaching, how to make shit happen is the book; everyone listening go check it out on Amazon, the Amazon, or just your site? But where are we headed?
Sean Whalen [00:24:27] Well, right now we're trying to put the wheels back on the bus. We got our asses kicked in production. We grew so fast. I turned everything on back in March. What I mean by that is I hired a team to come in. We started running ads. I'd never put ads out there. And we went from that to we were doing 2-3 thousand dollars a month of just apparel sales. We did 463 thousand dollars last month of apparel sales and 90 days of the year. And it fucked some things up. And I learned some very valuable, expensive lessons on production and being able to keep up. And it's a funny story. I mean, everybody thinks it's just sunshine and roses, but all my kids, my kids, and their friends work for me and they were all part of our production team. And I run all the numbers and I've got all the production companies and all the big promotional companies. We had ten of them employed as we were just crushed and we went from literally picking up one box of shirts and screen prints to getting pallets delivered. One of the kids got infected by Covid-19. And because they're all like my daughter's friends, 9 out of the 10 kids, their parents made them quit. Their parents made them self-quarantine. And so we were doing 350 orders a day, which represents about 6 to 700 shirts. Anyways, we got far behind. We got about 6000 shirts behind while the team came in and they're like, bro, we got a problem and I'm over here like let's go. And they're like, hang on bro, we got a problem because even if we work 24 hours a day, we can't get the numbers that we need.
Ryan Alford [00:26:17] And so if that wheel on the bike is at work and you can't because...
Sean Whalen [00:26:21] I've got some guys, some dear friends of mine that are big in the ecom space, they do millions of dollars a month. And I've told them this and they all laugh and chuckle because they said: "you know what I'm saying, like every single person has, this happened to my buddy who is bringing in hoverboards and he bought like twenty thousand from China, and they had already sold a bunch of them. And they all got hung up in customs. And he's like, it cost me almost a million dollars. And I'm like, yeah, this is a pain in the head. And he's like, well, now you're learning it. The vision for me is getting that part of the business straightened out, which we do now. But, I do. I'm passionate about this man. Especially with men to step into who they are and not in some hippie-dippy way, but like I'm forty-one years old and there's a lot of forty-one-year-olds that are like, OK, I got the house and the car and the kids and the thing like, why do I hate my life? Am I not doing anything I want to do. I mean my wife and me, we eat at the same place. You vacation at Disneyland once a year. Like what am I doing with my life and Lions Not Sheep. And specifically, I'm coaching a lot. I've got multiple facets to the business, but I want to show people that it's possible. Life is possible. It's not whimsical. It's not because I got a silver spoon. It's anything but with me. I've worked so hard for this. And I want to be able to show people and show kids and teenagers that we are one shot of this reality. We have one shot at this life, like go build the shit you want to build. I mean, I've never built an apparel company and I'm building a multi-million dollar apparel company. It's like I'm showing people I'm posting on Instagram my numbers every single day, sales, and also shit like I'm showing people how this is done. To be able to build from scratch a huge brand. But to me, my endgame is I want Lions Not Sheep to be a global company and have a majority of our people not have any clue who I am. That's my end game is I want to leverage what I've got now through social media and the following and connections or whatever. But I want somebody to be able to see this hat, see this message, see this t-shirt, resonate with it, and have the same feeling of empowerment and power that I do and that thousands of other customers and people do. So that's my end game. But we've got six different companies inside of Lions Not Sheep, that are all doing different things. And it's fun, man.
Ryan Alford [00:29:47] I love the way you bring your kids in when you talk about it. I have 4 boys under the age of 11, but we are knee-deep in it. And I love the way you bring them in, you're transparent about it, you talk about them.
Sean Whalen [00:30:08] I let them work here, so they got to see me get my ass kicked. I am talking to my son and we have a pile of shirts that are sitting in the warehouse and in trying to solve part of our problems we ended up outsourcing to another company to help us expedite these shirts. We sent them 5000 shirts and almost every single one came back a mess. So we have 25 thousand dollars sitting on the floor up there that I can do nothing with. So I am teaching them these things and showing them is such fun to me.
Ryan Alford [00:30:59] You interpreted where you see your legacy, but I do want to ask it. When they go Sean Whalen in 50 years what do you want people to think?
Sean Whalen [00:31:11] My legacy is my kids, and it's not wealth, it's not assets that can be distributed, it's not for one case and I raised kids. When my kids are splitting up if I play this game right, I've empowered my children to become their own entrepreneurial, independent creatures. My legacy is that if I can help my three kids break the chains that I came from and having dysfunction and having a divorce at a young age and having a dad that was never around, if I can be that man to where I'm laying on my deathbed knowing I don't give a fuck about the money, but my kids know that they live the fullest life with me, that's my game. I mean that to me. "I won". I mean, my son is 14 years old and he's raised the bar one thousand with me twice. He's raised the bar five hundred. And that's something I'm super proud of because it's like. That's our thing. Like, some 50-year-olds've been on their bucket list for 30 years and my son's already done it twice. And so to me, it's like. I want to be able to lay on my deathbed knowing Chester never to be on my deathbed, to blow myself up or drive on a racetrack on stupid shit like that. But I want to be able to sit back and not have any regrets. No, that I played the game. I was all in. I was all in every single day, like with my lover, with my kids, with my business, with my message. Like, you can go back and watch thousands of videos and that whether you like me or not, whether you agree politically with me or not that I'm spitting my truth and that's coming from my soul. And for me, that's the game I win if I accomplish that. And I feel like I'm on a pretty good track with that because that's how I feel sitting here. This is the last podcast I do. It's like, Whalen.
Ryan Alford [00:32:03] I think you're loving it. And as someone that doesn't agree with every single principle of yours, I respect you and wanted you on the podcast because I see that is as clear as day.
Sean Whalen [00:32:15] Well, we're smarter. You and I, everybody, we all think we're smart. Right? We should you shouldn't think you're dumb. But like, if you're smart, I love to study and I love to read. And if you think about all of these great men that have come before us, the Carnegie Rockefeller is the Steve Jobs, these literally like industry creators, and they just to change the face of the earth, they all say the same thing at the end of their book, all of them without question. They all say at the end of their books, their biographies, like, if I could go back and do it all over again, I would have spent more time doing the things that I wanted to do. I would have spent more time with my family. And I consider myself a pretty smart fellow. So if Carnegie Rockefeller, Steve Jobs is saying, if I could go back and trade places with Sean at forty-one and I'd spend more time playing and doing the things that I want to do, then I get what Instagram's trying to tell me. But at the end of the day, I'm enjoying my life, I'm living the life and I'm taking the counsel from those guys, and it seems to be working. It works well for me. And I've never been this happy before. Men make it a great business and a phenomenal family. Like I wake up every day, I'm like, I'm doing it?
Ryan Alford [00:33:38] I love it, brother. I'm going to let you go. I appreciate your time, Sean. It's been enlightening and I love what you're doing. So if you're looking to follow Sean Whalen on all the social media channels, you just Google Sean Whalen and you'll find him. Seanwhalen.com, lionsnotsheep.com go find him. Find your truth as well. Sean, I appreciate it. Hey Guys, this has been the latest episode of the Radcast. Follow along at theradcast.com and, at the.rad.cast on Instagram and we will see you next time.